4 Wonder Women of Cinematography at BSC Expo
The BSC Expo is Europe’s premier dedicated Film and TV production exhibit, showcasing the latest equipment and technologies. The Expo also hosts a wide range of exhibitors from leading kit manufacturers like ARRI and Kodak, to rental and publishing companies, to networking spaces. Cinegirl was present in collaboration with Digital Orchard’s Talent Bar that provides a safe networking space for new and established filmmakers.
Four women from Women Behind the Camera have talked to me about their experiences of becoming filmmakers and being women in the camera department.
Tamia Diaz: 1st AC born in Peru, living in the UK
Veronica Keszthelyi-Scown: 2nd AC and aspiring DoP from the US with Hungarian roots
Agnieszka “Aga” Szeliga: Camera operator from Poland
Denise Woods: DoP from Ireland
What these four amazing women have in common is that they all came from abroad with little or no contacts to the UK film industry, but all brought the driving passion to become inspiring filmmakers here. Being a woman in the film industry, especially in the camera department, can be hard at times. These cinematographers have had different career journeys, however, they all faced struggles of overcoming discrimination, stress on set, and confidence issues. They talked to us about standing out from the crowd as a woman.
The Journey of Becoming a Filmmaker
Tamia: Having spent most of my formative years on the road, moving between Peru, the US, Colombia, and Guatemala before the age of 6, I developed a sense of self sufficiency. This belief in one’s self had an influence on my “eye”, which may have started to develop when I was just a toddler. My introduction to cameras was from my Colombian father. Everywhere we travelled he had one with him, and he was always taking slide photos. When I was 13, he handed the camera to me. I remember the first picture that I took, it was of a mushroom growing up through pine needles on the forest floor in California. When I was 15, my father died, tragically. I spent a few years lost, emotionally in pain, with my need for a vision slowly starting to develop. When I got to university, I studied Physics because I wanted to be an engineer, but I took a beginner photography class. I felt I knew more than beginning photo offered me. That class taught me the most important lesson I could have learned about my camera: how to hate it. During that year I was assigned a work-study job in the film department. While I was having feelings about hating my camera, I started to look at film differently.
And then it hit me. It was just like the world shifted 90 degrees and it was a real Epiphany. I was standing outside of the film office, by the bike racks, looking down the street. I felt like everything just moved around me, standing still in the middle of it, and I could see far into the future. Then I felt like the sky fell and I had found what I knew would give me meaning; something I would be able to do for the rest of my life. At that moment I knew what was missing in my still camera: I found out that motion was the missing element in my photography. I found out that I wanted to always be involved in filmmaking. It all just made sense.
Veronica: I grew up as an artist. That’s what I was trying to do since I was little, so I studied Animation and Photography. My aunt is an artist as well, and my cousin is a graphic designer. We are an artist family.
After graduating from university, I wanted to work with Pixar, but I ended up working at a film lab in Maryland. A friend of mine told me, “You’re quite obsessed with films, no one else goes to the cinema once a week!” Then, it sort of dawned on me that I actually wanted to be a filmmaker. I worked as an extra on film sets, and I was fascinated by seeing the behind-the-scenes action. After a few years at the film lab, I applied for film school in the UK. I studied Cinematography, and it was finally my perfect job! Engaging, technical and social, and all the things that really make me who I am.
Aga: As long as I remember, I always loved films. As a child, I was glued to television. When I was young, I saw beautiful, black and white stills of the Camera Department from Hollywood sets of the 1940s and ‘50s. I was absolutely hypnotised by the enormous camera and the team around it, everyone focusing on their jobs. That was it! I have to be in the Camera Department! So, I pushed to join the industry thinking that I want to be a cinematographer. I had a long time before I actually became a Camera Trainee. I still felt unsure until I properly started working as a Camera Operator, and I absolutely fell in love with the role. I lost the desire to become a cinematographer.
When I first came to the UK, I went to a language school. I was planning to stay here for six months, but I fell in love with England on my first encounter and decided to stay. It wasn't planned, it just happened. In life, I always go with the flow. It also made sense for me to stay here as I wanted to push and get into the film industry. At first, I had no connections. I am a self-taught photographer, and my first job was taking stills on low-budget films. But I kept pushing and looking for the next job. The rest is history.
Denise: I grew up in rural Ireland in the ‘80’s and filmmaking wasn’t on my radar. I come from a working-class background and back then, the career paths would have been more towards getting a good steady job. Filmmaking wasn’t discussed. The only memory I recall in regard to liking film is when I was a kid, I used to watch black-and-white matinees on Sundays, like High Society with Frank Sinatra, Charlie Chaplin, The Marx Brothers or Singin' in the Rain. I remember being really sucked into that world.
I went to college in Dublin because I wanted to leave my town, but I didn’t like the course, so I decided to leave Ireland with a backpack on my back and go travelling. At that time, a friend of mine gave me a 35mm photography camera. He gave it to me as a gift and this was my first experience taking photographs and I loved it a lot. I loved when I got my roll of film processed and got to see the results in the photographs. So, I carried that camera with me everywhere and just took tonnes of photographs.
I returned to Dublin after a while, and I got a job in the Irish Film Institute in Dublin. My interest in film was definitely growing but I didn’t know what area of it that I wanted to work in. I was living a kind of nomadic hippie lifestyle. I was in my early 20’s and I got another opportunity to travel, so I left Ireland once again and I ended up in Australia working on a horse ranch. One of the owner’s daughters was running a cinema in the outback near Noosa Heads, Queensland. I had a day off and she invited me to pick a film and have the whole cinema to myself. I chose Won Kar-Wai’s In the Mood for Love. I remember being really struck by the beauty of the photography and deciding that this was a career I wanted to explore for sure.
I returned to Ireland and my first short film job was in the Art Department. But then I saw the Camera Department and I knew that's where I needed to go! I started reaching out to Cinematographers and ACs in Ireland to ask them to give me a shot to become a trainee. After working for a year on 13 short films and 1 feature, I got my first job as a Camera Assistant on a TV series. I climbed the ladder from clapper loader to focus pulling and operating some films.
I met filmmaker Patrick Jolley when I was focus pulling for a Spanish cinematographer, Núria Roldós. We were shooting a pilot for his series. After that, Patrick had a short film idea that he wanted to shoot, and Núria was unable to participate in it. She passed it to me and he gave me a chance. I remember being so nervous on that first shoot, because it was on film too, but I pulled it off and we went on to work together for almost 8 years!
Recent projects and learning curves
Tamia: I just did a short film that hasn't come out yet. It's a proof-of-concept project with a Swedish DoP. It was very fun to work with her, but she was not very technically savvy, so I got to do more by helping her solve problems, which I really enjoyed. It was all a new and interesting team. I also got to teach my 2nd AC the intricacies of loading film, which is apparently a dying art. One of the most exciting parts was creating a modified version of the SR3 camera, which was a unique experience.
Veronica: I recently shot a short film titled Tow Truck as the DoP, which was funded by the BFI. All I can say at the moment is that it’s just been completed and it’s being submitted to festivals. The most interesting part of this job was that it dealt with mental health issues. The main actor was a non-binary actor. This was my first time shooting with someone who is non-binary, so that was really exciting to me. I think this is the future where stories are heading. In terms of the story, the director had a solid vision and we did lots of long, vulnerable shots, which I don’t think you can see in short films that often.
Aga: My latest job was House of the Dragon, which is the Game of Thrones prequel. It was nine months and a half long project with four different DoPs and directors. I absolutely loved the experience! I've never been on such a long job before, and to me, it was a big step up. I really loved working with the four different sets of DP-directors, as each of them were very different. All of them had different energy and ideas, which I found really exciting. Meeting new professionals, working for different people with different visions, it was a fascinating project. I really enjoyed every moment of it. It was a wonderful learning curve. I think to me, the most important and then most exciting part in every project is the process of collaboration, to be included and involved in the creative process.
Denise: I just shot a short film and it was probably one of the first projects that I've gotten since being in London. It was for Sky Arts, titled Widows Might. I also worked on a 2nd Unit. To be honest, whenever I’m on set, it's a happy place for me. Doing interviews for consideration to work on projects is part of it all, and I have accepted that I won't be chosen for every job. I've been living here in London for a year and a half now, so I'm still pretty new in film terms but also, I feel like I’m doing well. I still have to be out there hustling to be given a chance, but putting myself out there is part of the game too. I’ve had to take time away because of a personal reason, but I'm still pushing forward, and I don't have an intention of giving up this profession any time soon.”
What inspires you to pursue the journey of storytelling?
Veronica: I get inspired when I see other work! For instance, I remember the feeling when I watched The Imitation Game. I loved that I felt like I was on fire. They ruined this amazing human being just because he’s different. It made me want to shoot and do my own works about all these folk stories. I find the most inspiration in contemporary topics and female films. There are not many that involve gender representation. By watching stereotypes, people will not feel represented. My passion is to shoot stories that hold a mirror up to society. I’m an activist, so I am drawn to global, gender-specific topics and LGBTQ issues. I want to share that and provide a point of view. I would like to change the narrative.”
Denise: What inspires me? To be honest, it’s the everyday things. I enjoy walking on the streets and seeing interactions between people and how the light is. Sometimes, you get a snapshot in your head that would make a beautiful frame of a film. It's in the small things in the everyday life that I find incredibly inspiring, and I look for it as well. I actively try to find or to see something beautiful because it's there. It's there in front of you.
Being a woman in the Camera Department – Diversity, overcoming stress and the struggles of networking
Tamia: I took a ten-year break from the industry, because I was working out on location and I felt like I lacked community. There is a lack of opportunity to be able to actually pursue what you want. For example, some women are physically smaller. You will struggle with some of the kits at first, but it doesn't mean you can't do it. It will mean that you have to stand on a box for handheld shots as an operator. But you can find an easy workaround. It’s not about trying to do it the same way as anyone else; you can do it the way that works best for you.
The discrimination against women in the industry is changing, but I am not sure if it’s changing fast enough. Ari Wagner's win this year at Critics’ Choice Awards is monumental. I think it will hugely inspire the next two or three generations of women who want to be successful DoPs. Whether this film Power of the Dog (2021) is understood by the entire planet, it's irrelevant. It was a really interesting film and I love that it had such a varied interpretation of every person I know who watched it. She was the first woman I ever met at the BSC networks. It was special and hugely inspiring for me.
Veronica: I think it’s very, very slowly changing. At the moment, we’re at that stage when we are aware of ‘other’ types of people and consciously including them more. During my experiences working as a 2nd AC, I recognized that the department is usually very male and very white. I think there are more women getting involved and infiltrating the industry, but I still don't see a lot represented. And also, I think queerness is one of the things that we don’t talk about as much. I know that my presence means a lot, just by being there and working. I think it’s important for people to be able to see themselves represented in this field.
It’s a hard question to answer, if I had to overcome any discrimination in the industry, because I don’t know if I’ve had any direct experiences. My husband is a white man and he works in Sound. When we met, he hadn’t started in the industry yet, and I had been in the industry for 4 years already. He got more work and made more money in the first year he was working than I did when I started. He still makes more money and still works more often. The fact that I’m an immigrant has definitely played in. I knew no one when I came here. After I graduated film school, I spent the first year just working on anything I could get on, sometimes for free. Then from these jobs, people contacted me to work, thankfully. When you’re getting older, you develop your confidence in working in the industry and in networking as well.
Aga: I’ve always been the odd female camera trainee or the odd camera assistant. I’ve always been wondering why there are so little women in the Camera Department, but I don't think I ever personally felt I was discriminated against. I'm really grateful to be on every set and I just always wished that there were more women. We started working on the Women Behind the Camera and I have discovered that there were hundreds of other women working in these departments. I think in the last few years there has been a massive push for gender balance and more diverse crews. And I have proudly been campaigning for it. This is really exciting because we see a positive change in the Camera Department. I believe it's especially important for the young women and non-white crew members trying to get in the industry, to be able to see people who look like themselves, especially in HoD roles.
Denise: I think it's slowly getting better but it's not fast enough. I’ve always had to support myself. I would have loved to have gone to film school, but I couldn’t see the path to it at the time. We can’t ignore the fact that there's definitely a class disparity going on within the film industry. There are a lot of talented people who don’t have the money to elevate themselves or put themselves through film school. I’d love to see a bit more being done to help people like that because talent doesn't have a class. I’d say if you are from a more privileged background or have that privilege to be in a good place in the film industry, hold the ladder for somebody, don't pull the ladder up behind you. It's all about helping other people and sharing your knowledge. Spread the love so to speak. There’s a strange dichotomy going on, you hear in the industry that a lot of people can't find the right crew and talent to work, whereas there are loads of people who can’t get work within the industry, even if they have a lot of experience. Sometimes people are not willing to take a chance on new people, but how did today’s brilliant DoPs get to where they are now? Only by people taking chances on them.
I think mentoring programmes are very helpful and there should be more of it as well. There are a lot of amazing women in the industry who strive for change.
What’s next?
Tamia: I’m going to do a documentary, which is a bit of a side step for me. It’s also an opportunity to shoot from B camera, as an operator. It’s a pretty film, I’m really excited about it.
My work is normally more in episodic series and films. I stumbled over into documentaries. I feel like I've been trapped a little in ACing because focus pulling is one of those positions that if you get good at it and you’re fun to be around, they don’t want to let you move out. I might do a Business Degree, because I also want to produce. It’s an interesting process and workflow, I’d love to give it a try.
Veronica: It’s up in the air at the moment. I have a BSC mentor and we’re both trying to get me an opportunity to shadow him on his project that’s starting in May. I hope I’ll be able to get the confidence that will allow me to put myself out there for higher jobs as a DoP, rather than a 2nd AC. I don’t have anything scheduled other than that. I’m planning to have a baby, but my partner’s going to do a job until October. We’ll see where life takes me.
Aga: My next project is going to happen this month. It's a four-month long superhero film, one of Marvels’ projects. I really look forward to it.
Denise: I’ve been in London for one and a half years and I’m doing alright. I've shot a project already and done 2nd Units as well. I’m a member of the Women Behind the Camera, and I joined the BSC Club. You join all these organizations, you talk to people, and it’s still a work in progress. You have to keep networking and try to stay hopeful that someone will see the potential and hopefully give you a chance.
Advice for filmmakers who are trying to get into the industry
Tamia: There is absolutely nothing but persistence. That’s what you need. There are lots of skills that people think you need to be in the industry. No, it’s just about persistence. Then, it's also important that you have decent social skills. It sounds foolish, but that's what we were all initially taught when we were children. It's simple: be kind to each other! Everybody's struggling and working for something. Generally, we're all trying to do the best we can. There are people in the industry who can be rude, but try to work around them. Not everybody is for everybody, but it's a collaborative medium. If you don't like somebody, just be professional! Just keep looking at the problem from a different perspective: it's a box. It’s got four corners, if you stand on one side, and look at one corner all the time, it's always going to look the same. Go around the other side!
Veronica: Free spirits. That's always my go-to advice for anyone whose aim is to get into the industry. If you want it badly enough, just keep pushing through! There's never a point in thinking about how successful you are at the moment or how long you have been doing it. Perseverance is also important. Keep going, even if you think you'll never find work again. The next show will come, you just need to push through. In the past, I was not afraid to take temporary jobs, for example working in offices, just to pay the bills. It helps me be better at meeting people. (laughing). If you really, really want it, go, make it happen! Be confident. If you hate it and it's something that you really don’t like anymore, go try something else.”
Aga: Work hard and be persistent, with patience. Be truthful to yourself and authentic. It doesn't matter if you don't have connections initially. Even though, of course, connections are helpful. Through hard work and persistence, we can get to where we want to.
Denise: The only advice I could give to somebody who wants to get into the film industry is to test and see if you like it. Firstly, give it a try to see if it's something that you want to do because it’s an all-consuming profession at times. Even if you like it, it’s not easy. As a freelancer, you will sometimes find yourself where you don't have work. Live a life as well. Go and experience life because it not only influences your filmmaking, but makes you do it better. I think everything you experience bleeds into your art. Don't be so hard on yourself either. Prepare for failure in a way to learn from it and don't be discouraged. Take it as part of your growing. Everybody's at a different stage in their path.
You can find more about these incredible, hard-working women and their works through their websites:
Tamia Diaz: www.aimatamia.com/
Veronica Keszthelyi-Scown: www.expandedframe.com/
Denise Woods: https://denisewoodsdop.com/
Resources:
https://bscexpo.com/
https://digitalorchardgroup.com/home/foundation/talent-bar/
Photo from Lady Birds Club #ladybirdsclub
